The purpose of this blog is to act as a space for the members of Mr. Freed's US History Honors class to work out their thoughts on some of the greatest debates in the Early Republic Period of American History. Had these events gone on today, they would not have taken place in the slow moving speed of print media. They would have taken place in electronic space on blogs, twitter feeds, Facebook posts and the like.
You mission is to bring to bear the ideas you learn about in class to this space and have it out here. Each of the bog debates will have a category title. You must make an original posting for your team and comment in support of against the other members of the class.
Rules: There are always rules and no this is not America so there is no freedom of speach...Dobbs!
- Be civil. You can challenge each other's opinions but not each other personally. Everyone is going to see who writes what so keep it academic.
- Your posts must contain historically supported opinions. You can't just pop off and say something because you like the way it sounds. Our goal is to better than the current media culture. For all of your opinions or arguments, you must cite something that happened or someone's actual ideas.
- Your posts can be as long as you like but they need to be at least 3-4 sentences. Hopefully your original ones will be much longer because they need to be in order to make a good point.
- You need to post often. Once I open a debate you need to be checking this space often and posting regularly. Let's say at least once every other day while the debate is open.
- Posts will be graded for the completeness of the argument (did you cover the bases or leave holes open?) and validity of historical citation (did you use the historical evidence the right way or are you taking someone way out of context?)
The big topics will include: The Crisis of Government in the 1780's, The Hamilton vs. Jefferson Debate on Civic/ Republican Virtue, The Early Political Parties and the Debt Crisis, Early Civil Liberties Issues, The War of 1812.
Enjoy!
Anti-Federalists
ReplyDeleteAs Anti-Federalists, a majority of our members are from rural areas and typically are not wealthy; which leads us to be the benchmark, the median of society, and the true representatives of the common American people. We look out for our fellow citizens rights and oppose any person or group whom tries to rise in power via wealth or political corruption. The new life of America has not been decided, but we will protect our rights and oppose any form of a strong central government. Thus, we are opposed to the verification of the Constitution because we are opposed to having a strong union/government and we fear having a powerful executive (president). The constitution also needs a bill of rights.
The articles of confederation should be revised but not completely rid of. This new constitution’s establishment of a strong central government is outrageously idiotic. It gives the Federal government an excessive amount of power; which should be limited to a point, which their only involvement is within international situations and state disputes. This leaves states the freedom and rights that they deserve and ensures that a monarchy will never come into power. If a monarch-like government took hold, then our rights would be limited and controlled. This monarch-like government would have a strong central government and restrict our already well working state governments. This strong central government would not equally represent each of our states; which would alter our ability to take part in various issues in our own country. The central government would not fully consider our individual rights and state rights. Therefore, the states should withhold more power than the central government as a whole in order to ensure equal representation of states and American citizens. (http://pinzler.com/ushistory/argantfedsupp.html)
On another note, the creation of an executive branch would corrupt America as we know it. The creation of a president will form a government of oppression, lead by a few wealthy people. Those few wealthy rulers would only look out for themselves and other high-class citizens. They would put the average American down in order to raise the wealthy up; which would jeopardize the average majorities’ rights. Sadly, this greatly resembles the government we just rid of, a monarchy. As Americans, we cannot allow ourselves to be restrained by a small government again. The king took our money, told us what to do, and restricted our rights as people. The creation of an executive branch would be detrimental towards our new country and freedom. This repeating monarch-like government shall not be permitted by us!!!! (http://pinzler.com/ushistory/argantfedsupp.html)
Lastly, the constitution does not state that it will protect the peoples’ liberty! For goodness sakes there is a bill of rights for state governments, but not for this new government?!?! Without a Bill of Rights to protect our liberty we could end up re-living the restrictive English monarch era. We do not want to lose our liberty again, for we know that once it is lost it is never returned without mutiny. For a person to cast away their freedom is unfathomable; they might as well sign their life away. We need our rights to be secured because we are free Americans and deserve to do as we wish!!! Freedom and power to the people!!! (http://pinzler.com/ushistory/argantfedsupp.html)
In conclusion, the new constitution will ruin America as we know it. Our Anti-Federal stance clearly reveals the true horrific nature of the new constitution, for we, the average Americans, shall never permit such corruption to take over our newly gained freedom and land. Thus, the Constitution should not be verified because of the destructive nature of a strong union/government, monarch-like executive (president), and its lack of a Bill of Rights.
Children living in a house need parents to supervise and guide them on a path of rationality. People are naturally immoral and will act upon irrational thought. A country of states will clash and divide without a powerful central government to hold them together. A strong central government is superior to a confederacy because the federal government can protect the people’s rights, put the qualified leaders in charge to avoid a mobocracy, and is needed cohere uncooperative states.
ReplyDeleteTo the anti-federalists, the rights of the people are threatened by a strong central power, however, what they do not realize is that a federal government could protect the people’s rights from individual state governments, giving the entire population social justice. With thirteen individual state governments being the only powers, the states would devise different rules and rights for their people, which would not give everyone the same freedom. The inequality of freedom between the people would cause social tension, therefore slowly breaking the unity that was felt in early America and during the war. Under one federal government, however, all people would have the same standards and rights. A strong central power can establish a solid foundation of freedom for all people.
In an anti-federalist confederacy, the common people are in complete control of their given state. This may appeal to many people, however the reality is that the majority of Americans are uneducated and not qualified to make decisions involving the greater good of the country. They would be unable to carry out their will in a respective manner, but would instead send themselves into a spiraling state of frantic confusion. Under a strong central government, the qualified and educated would be chosen to lead and make the important decisions, and would also know how to carry out said decisions without the outbreak violence and disarray. The leaders would also be able to take what the common people want into consideration and would be able to strategically install it. This system would be much safer and more effective than a confederation.
Under a confederation, for a law to be passed throughout the entire nation, all of the states would have to support it, making it almost impossible and not even worth trying. This problem would keep our great nation from growing and living up to its full potential. With this dilemma, we will never be able to advance on a global scale. Under a strong central power, however, rules could more evenly selected and used within the entirety of the nation. Under our rule, if the rule mutually improves the lives of it’s people and changes the nation for the better, then it will most likely pass. The states that it would not help would be taken care of by the federal government to the best of its ability. A strong central power would be able to judge what is best for the nation and help us advance to a strong power nation.
The answer to the question of which type of government should be chosen for our awe-inspiring nation is inevitable. A powerful educated government is the core solution to perfection. Our people are in need of educated direction to lead them on a path to success and glory of the peoples’ nation.
The Articles of Confederation did not need to be revised. It was overall completely weak and ineffective and we needed something new. We needed a whole new Constitution which included a very strong national government which is useful in controlling the uncooperative states. This government DOES NOT threaten the rights of the people but it actually protects the rights of the people. This constitution will protect individual people's rights. (http://staff.gps.edu/mines/APUSH%20-antifederalists_vs_federalists.htm). There is absolutely no need for the Bill of Rights. After the war in which we defended our rights, the people do not want those rights taken away.Also, there are so many rights to list that there might as well not be a list at all. The separation of powers would also be best and all three branches are equal so no one can assume control over another.
ReplyDeleteOh the federalists...they do not know what they are doing whatsoever. Signing their own lives away to the government. Luckily a majority of Americans, like us Anti-federalists, would right-mindedly keep their rights and remain free by asking for a Bill of Rights. Those whom are federalist do not know the doom, which they are creating by ridding of the Articles of Confederation. (Me). They do not have the slightest idea that their new government structure would diminish states rights by subjugating them follow mandates created by the few and wealthy in power. Clearly, this is a corrupt idea. The masses should rule, not the few. If the majority ruled then there would be less disputes and more rights for the people. Also, the new executive branch would take all of the power from the congress and the courts, and be unchecked by the other government branches and people. These government officials will also be swayed by people looking for government favors causing them to become even more corrupt. Thus this new government does not ensure our freedom, instead it establishes a dark future for a monarch- like America. (http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2008/02/05/licalzi/why_the_anti_federalists_were_right)
ReplyDeleteKatie, how can you say we, the federalists, do not know what we're doing? We are not signing our lives away to the government just by creating a new Constitution. This way of governing protects the rights of the people way more than the Articles of Confederation ever did. This country is not just made up of farmers, but it is made up of all types of people and the anti-federalists want the farmers to be dominant. Why would we leave all the power to the states? That just creates the same confederacy that we had where there is no power to act. Also, do you want a situation where the national government can't tax when they want to? That's how it is with the Articles of Confederation. With this Constitution, the national government can tax and enforce the laws. This strong national government is a much better way to go for the country. Anti-federalists need to do a little bit more research.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDefending:
ReplyDeleteAmerica is a country in the making and the reason why we fought in the revolution was to escape the over-bearing power of a strong central government. WE are a free country now and we can decide what we want with the power coming from the people which is the opinion that matters the most considering the fact it is us, the people who are living in the country not just a few strong wealthy leaders!!!. We do not need to revise the constitution in order to form a “better” country. We have the articles of confederation. That’s good enough. Why take the power away from the people and change the meaning of this new country we are forming and change the constitution.
Attacking.
Wealthy, powerful and strong people are the people who run this country and make the decisions in this country while the minority most hard-working part of the country will not have any say in the decision to decide who runs this wonderful country of ours. Why do the rich and powerful believe that they can just do what they want while we are providing them with everything they need in the back. The article of confederations states everything that we need in order to run a powerful successful country. If we want to be run by one powerful government then why don’t we just bring the monarchy back into this country and which would have wasted all of our time and money. Now we are paying for it in taxes on just about everything we purchase. Having a change in the constitution would limit the average people’s say in who runs this country which could potentially lead to conflict. How are we supposed to have freedom if it is limited in pen on paper?? How does that make sense to the people who work to
courtney- why would we want a country led by just a few leaders? when we could have it run by the MAJORITY not ALL of the country's population. The majority of the country which are low-class hardworking farmers believe that an over powering government would limit our rights as human-beings. We should not let this tolerate! State power is the way to go !!
ReplyDeleteAs Federalists, we try to hold our country together as UNITED States. Giving state government the ability to protect certain rights will separate us as a nation. Each state will be living under different rights, making unequal distribution of freedom. Our job right now is to bring people together, not separate them. Let's look at the Native Americans. They are always fighting. Do we want to be separated? Do we want to be like the savages that are always causing mindless havoc? Ill let you answer that.
ReplyDeleteIn our defense, for our safety, we strongly believe that the most qualified and most intelligent should be the ultimate decision makers in our country. There is most definitely representation of the people. It's nothing like the monarchy of the British. WE as a whole will select the best of the best to supervise our country.
ReplyDeleteFederalism is necessary for three main reasons. First of all, a strong federal government can protect the peoples’ rights. Setting one standard of freedom across the entire nation for all people, would keep local and state powers from abusing their peoples’ rights. The second reason that federalism is superior to a confederacy is that it puts those qualified to lead in charge. Under an anti federalist confederacy, the common people, who are mainly uneducated and not qualified to rule, would have control, which would create mobs. The final reason why federalism is needed is to control uncooperative states. In a confederacy, all of the states, or at least the vast majority, must agree on something for it to pass. This can hurt the nation as a whole because something that is beneficial for most states may not pass due to uncooperative states. A federal government can make decisions that are good for the nation as a whole.
ReplyDeleteAnti-Federalism is not necessary because of its inability to form a strong nation, put those qualified in charge, and its risk of not respecting the peoples’ rights. With no federal government, a nation cannot advance into the realm of world powers, and will always be weak because thirteen individual governments cannot function as one. We also would not have the qualified in charge. Instead the common people would be in charge, which would cause lots of violent mobs. The government cannot give in to the whims of mobs if it wants to be strong. The final reason why a confederacy is not necessary is the lack of respect for people rights that it might create. Under one strong government, all of the people would have the same rights, but under thirteen individual governments, the states may abuse their peoples’ rights, seeing as how they would have no one to answer to.
In our defense, we are also trying to hold this country together by preventing the separation between the classes and government. The states governments having more power would unite the United States as a whole and give each of us equal power you moron. On another note both educated and non-educated people have opinions. We are all equal and free people and we shall not allow the Federalists to take that from us. State governments would ensure our equality as a whole, not diminish the states as one. The poor people's perspective is important and is actually a majority of our population. Thus all should be equal and have the same amount of power in government decisions by having powerful state governments in order to prevent an massive uprising/rebellion of negatively affected people whom were not considered to be "smart" or wealthy. Who are you to define ones importance as a person. We will keep America together as a whole just by preventing this disaster from occurring. Go Anti Federalists!
ReplyDeleteAs rural free thinkers, we represent the majority and the backbone of American society. Self-sufficiency and the ability to think freely are key factors in America. Progress can be made when individuals think for themselves and generate new ideas while learning to take care of themselves. Although Federalists often think we are simple and uneducated, we posses the skills necessary to move America forward. Rural citizens support us but everybody can benefit. Our philosophy is best because it will help the nation grow and progress through the natural expansion of human thought.
ReplyDeleteFreethinking is necessary to move our great nation forward because people can generate their own thoughts and ideas. If people do not think for themselves, and just have information handed to them, then the knowledge that they will be gathering, will only be what the federal government wants them to hear. The intellectual virus that a strong government introduces will infect their thoughts with what the government wants them to believe. Our country is in need of a system where people can express themselves and be free to form their own opinions based on the information that they gather.
One thing that federalists don’t realize is the importance of self-sufficiency. Through our anti-federalist system, our nation would be producing its own crops, which would free us from reliance on other nations. This is important because instead of being the beggars for help, we can supply assistance and form strong relations with others. Self-sufficiency also creates men and women who are capable of doing things on their own. They will be able to not only learn but to also experiment and improve the original ideas. These people will be able to teach their children and spread their knowledge for the well being of the general population. Under a federal government, people will learn to do the one or two skills that they specialize in. People will be worked like animals designed to do one task day in and day out. Their thoughts will be restrained to their specific job. We need self-sufficient free thinkers.
From our society, everybody would ultimately benefit because they will learn new skills and be able to think for themselves. Liberation from the confined box the federalism puts you in will make living life much more enjoyable and the excitement of being able to explore and form your own opinions. Happiness of the people is the most important result of having a democratic republic.
Defense: We are not going to allow for our government to become corrupt. The various branches we have will ensure the equality of state representation and the executive branches rights. Having a president will not ever restult in a monarchy because we are in America the new land of the free and we the federalists have no intention of diminishing the freedom of our people. We just strive for a better more determined America, in which slackers will be diminished until there are none left and the economy would rise and bring America into power as one of the richest, most powerful, and free country ever. The arguments against our new government are completly invalid and it only takes a genious to realize that we are correct. If you had any witt whatsoever you would support our amazing merchant economy, which will benefit america for the greater good and will NEVER become corrupt.
ReplyDeleteAttack: Us anti-federalists are the backbone of this country. Therefore we are obviously against aristocratic city folk who make up a small minority of the country. Putting them in control would obviously lead to a tyrannical downpour for the majority. Instead of having social justice and equal opportunity for all, the rich minority in power would look down on us farmers and laborers, and treat us like children just like British empire that we just escaped. A strong federal government will be able to garner all the power that it wants, and power is not to be trusted. Creating a strong federal government would be creating the very thing that we just escaped from.
ReplyDeleteAttack : As anti-federalists, we can not listen to the small population of city people who think they are better than everyone. We are the rural farmers that make up the majority of the American population. It would not be intelligent at all for us to put you guys in charge because you guys think you are so much better than everyone and all you will do is take away our rights and look down on us. You guys think you are so much superior to us and that you can take away social justice from us. If you guys created a strong central government, you will have so much power that you would definitely abuse it and not respect the rights of us rural farmers just like Britain did.
ReplyDeleteDefense: The rural farmers are what makes America what it is today. We are definitely the majority in this nation and the "people" should have the say in this nation. Without us, you guys get no food and goods or anything. You guys could not do anything without the rural farmers and the agriculture. A government for each state would definitely be best because each state could make rules for itself and one central government would not abuse its power to take away our rights.
ReplyDeleteWe, the Federalists of America, are against the Monroe Doctrine, the Louisiana Purchase, and the War of 1812. All three of these events are harmful to our economy and to our relationships with other countries. They keep us from expanding and maintaining relations with world powers, such as France and Britain. In order to become a world power, we must create good relationships with strong European nations for the benefit of our economy and our protection.
ReplyDeleteThe Monroe Doctrine is a doctrine that states we as America are obligated to protect and help other countries that are independent. Surely if that country is worth the fight for us, we should help out but to help all countries with a threat of losing independence would mean a vast majority of our nation’s wealth being spent on something that is not our cause. If we want to become a strong country, then we first must gain the trust of other strong countries. This doctrine keeps us from doing so. If one of our powerful allies is attempting to gain a country back by taking their independence, then that would mean we would have to fight against an ally. Not only does this doctrine keep us from becoming strong, it puts us in a losing fight. If Spain tries to overtake one of its former colonies, then we cannot stop it. We lack the military power and the experience to do so. All that would become of a fight with a powerful ally would be our country pounded into disarray. This doctrine also forces us to fight wars that we have no business fighting. It would destroy economic relations with said country and it would also put us at a position of threat.
The Louisiana Purchase was a deal that wasted a lot of national wealth. We have no idea how much land we have just bought, and we spent 15 million dollars on it! The budget was 5 million! We are not England! Also, what do we need with this land? Sure we might want to expand our population a little but expansion to fill 15 million dollars worth of land would be hectic. The Louisiana Purchase also forces people out of the cities resulting in a work force shortage. We don’t even need the farmland. A crucial part of becoming a world power is developing good trade relations with other countries. This prevents us from doing do that. Farming would merely put us back to where we started at the beginning of our nation. Sure it’s good to be self-sufficient but we must not isolate ourselves from other countries. We must maintain our merchant international trade.
The War of 1812 is an unnecessary war to say the least. We could very easily stop selling weapons to both sides of the war and keep good relations with both of them, but instead we decide to anger a giant that had nothing against us. We are not ready for this, as we have just acquired a steady military. Even if we win this war, the price will not be worth it. This war could send us into a depression and we could lose a substantial portion of military before it is even fully developed. Not to mention the effect this will have on our trade relations with England. A world power like them would be nice to trade with but now the idea is far-gone.
In conclusion, we can clearly see that for the good of this nation, we need to maintain good relations with world powers for the purpose of military alliances and trade. If we ever want to be among these powers, then we should not get in their way or try to produce all of our goods by ourselves.